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Cutelilchica
So, with all the stresses of moving, packing my self declared worth of life away in brown boxes. Trying to cope with my sister moving across the world, and having to deal with my moms sudden urge to quit smoking AND her starting to see a therapist (equates to her lashing out on me for all my wrongdoings in the past 7 years). Not to mention the constant reminder of the state the world is in right now, thats all everyone is talking about, thats all I read about on the front of papers, all I see on the T.V... it was enough.
I needed refuge.
So, I waited for the right day.
Thirty degree weather.
Sun roof down.
All my favorite c.d's in the mix.
I was in the mood for seclusion.
Now, for all you non British Columbians- if you haven't heard of Tofino or Long Beach... sad. If your from British Columbia and you haven't been to Tofino or Long Beach... very sad. If your from B.C and you've never heard of Tofino or Long Beach... I'm ashamed of you, thats beyond sad.
To get to Long Beach, meant driving through my hometown of Port Alberni, I call it my hometown, cuz I spent more than 3 years there. Which made it feel like a home to me when I was a kid, plus I spent all my formulative teen years there.
So, I had to stop and visit grandma and grandpa, Spunky, and their fifty canaries. First off... it was hard to have any conversation with all the birds in the background...
Grandma gave me a picture I drew when I was five. Still trying to find out what was up with it... ten smiling faces, and one sad one... plus all these other things I can't even figure out.
Next stop, was to pick up a 20 sack, can't go to Tofino without being prepared.
Of course, I couldn't go on without stopping at "my" lake... Sproat Lake, found my secluded stop off of a logging road.
STripped down bare after smoking a fattie and ran into the water... Ooooooooooooh my! Was like I was reborn.
Was hard to talk myself into continuing on with my journey, I was ready to stay put, floating on my back looking at the sky.
But the sound of a distant car door made me run for my clothes... and reminded me why I wasn't in the mood for human made destractions.
After driving the hectic highway, through the green rainforests of the Island, I finaly arrived to my final destination of the day. I had reached the end of the WestCoast of B.C. I could be wrong... but I think its furthest Western point in Canada... think I'm wrong though.
I do know, that if you were to keep travelling West into the horizon... you would end up in Japan...
So I sat on the beach, and was by myself the whole 8 hours I sat there to write. Not a single soul... not even a footprint to prove that there was existance of man besides my self.
To top it all off, after staying to watch the sunset over the water... which was beyond words, I waited for the stars to come out and just as I was leaving... I spotted a falling star.
That whole day...
It was calming, it was soothing... it was relaxing... it was nurturing...
It was neccesary... it took me back to basics.
I recommend it to anyone and everyone. Just leave the imprints of society, and fall into nature. She'll welcome you... and calm your mind. Seclude yourself with the sights and smells that are beyond our own creation and try to clear your vision... mmmmm. I wanna go back.
smile.gif
ANd just for those who don't know and haven't seen what serene beauty I'm talking about, here are some pictures to make this all that more visual.
Yes, there is more to Vancouver Island than Victoria... much, much more.

http://www.island.net/~tofino/indexpic.jpg (shot of beaches by air)

http://pericat.ca/coast/photos/tofino/2975...mist520x390.jpg (Long Beach)

http://math.fullerton.edu/sannin/photoalbu...ouver%20057.jpg (The lake I like to call mine)

http://www.sagarmatha.com/images/2003-BC-PRRainForest.jpg (colors of the rainforest in the summer)
Pisces
Those photos are gorgeous smile.gif I always wanted to go over to British Columbia while I lived in Canada, but never made the time or arrangements for such a trip. Would still like to someday soon in the near future... beautiful !

Thanx for sharing all of that too... you sound rejuvenated cool.gif
Cutelilchica
Was very rejuvinating indeed... funny how the simple things in our life can heal us so much.
Even funnier how I let myself forget that such things can help keep me stable. I get so caught up.
I hear ya on never getting to B.C....
I keep telling myself I should go to the opposite coast and check that out...
one day... one day. tongue.gif
What made you decide to move down to the States, if you don't mind me asking?
MusicAddict
I went to toffino last winter to go surfing. the water was cold and the weather was bad but the waves were so good.
not only is the nature beautiful but the town people are amazing. they are all kind of hippies. it is really starting to become a tourist resort area though. i don't think that they like that.
and i remembered the people protesting about trees? they were living in trees? i think they wanted to cut down trees for a parking lot and activists where living in the trees to stop them.
i would go back if i could afford hotel room for enough time.
Cutelilchica
Cathedrol Grove, yes... don't know about people actaully living in the trees, but they have set up camp and have prevented loggers access for the past nine months or so.
One extreme to the other...
Cathedrol Grove is home to the largest trees in the world... trees that have withstood time for the past hundreds of years.
There's a link posted below that'll take you right to the main website.
Of course it is a bias view, but if you support the cause there is a link on the site which would allow you to send an e-mail off to show that your supportive of their mission.
http://www.cathedralgrove.com/
MusicAddict
i agree with the protestors. why should we cut down the trees so tourists can pay to park their cars to look at trees? seems stupid. thanks for the site.
Cutelilchica
Thats how I see it as well... how timely of them to just start considering the idea pre-olympics... hmmmm.
OriginalBlend
Nothing calms your nerves and makes you appreciate life more than just chillin by nature. and doin some music or just thinking. I spend most of my time when I have free time just enjoying nature or music mostly both. Nothing beats a good sun set and some thoughts. I got to drop a hit this weekend too and man life can be so beautiful!
MusicAddict
why are druges needed for you to think life is beautiful OrigninalBlend?
And the olymipcs are in Vancouver so why would that have anything to do with Cathedrol Grove Cutelilchica?
FireFly
I can't speak for OriginalBlend but I know for myself it's all about PERSPECTIVE.

It makes you look at the world in ways that you never would when sober. I also find that it puts me more in touch with my body and hightens the senses.

There is a reason why many cutlures use drugs for Spiritual and healing practices.
Cutelilchica
QUOTE(MusicAddict @ Aug 2 2005, 05:41 PM)
why are druges needed for you to think life is beautiful OrigninalBlend?
And the olymipcs are in Vancouver so why would that have anything to do with Cathedrol Grove Cutelilchica?
*


More tourists will be flocking throughout the province during that time, which equals more revenue...
And I agree 100% with Firefly about the use of drugs.
I think the most percpective natural drug available, would be mushrooms.
No other drug can open doors in your mind the way they do.
The questions you ask yourself, and these sudden answers that hit you...
Moderation is the simple key though.
My sister had a krazy experience, speaking of Tofino and Drugs...
Ingested too much, ended up peaking at this point where she could only think of blank paper... her mind was pure white... beyond what we could even comprehend.
All that she could do was keep repeating to herself "safe in sanity" but when she'd say it outloud, it would sound as though she was saying "save insanity"
So, moderation my friend, just like anything in life.
If you've never experiemented with harder drugs before, I suggest doing a little background searching, get yourself familiar with what to expect.
And always do them when your at a stable point in life.
amphiboly
i had never heard of tofino before sad.gif
Im definitely going to have to check it out

as for psychedelics
Some quotes from Terance Mckenna

"What the psychedelic experience really is, is opening the doorway into a lost continent of the human mind, a continent that we have almost lost all connection to"

"psychedelics dissolve boundaries. And many of the boundaries which enclose us are boundaries of habit, convention. Under the influence of the drug we see beyond those boundaries"
oceanchild
thanx for the hint and info on Tofino, Cutelilchica ... i'm on vaccation for a couple of weeks in BC and i think i'm going to make a point of visiting this place - already seen so much here ... if i can find a job here i'd like to move out to BC --- so much amazing nature to take advantage of - and the weather (so far) has been spectacular, though i hear it rains a lot !

i saw a seal today + purple and red star fish when we went out kayaking (sp?) fun fun !
Cutelilchica
To reply to amphiloby... long as you don't live in B.C i can forgive you for never hearing about Tofino, kinda a diamond in the rough... and on the subject of psychedelics, if you haven't already read my topic under music and books titled "Modest Mouse and Moshka".... it includes the description of a book I'm reading thats made up of many pieces written by a man named Aldous Huxley.
Funny, cuz yesterday after reading a quote on the Faith And Reality topic, I finaly made up my mind to check out what this whole Krishnamurti thing was about and found this site http://www.kinfonet.org/ where there was a little thing about Huxley.
Full circle. Love when stuff like that clicks into place.


And Oceanchild, from your name I'd think you'd belong in B.C! tongue.gif I would totaly recommend making a point to check out Tofino- its unlike any other place in B.C and would just.... you have to!
Make a point to take the old Highway (assuming you'd be coming via either Nanaimo or Victoria) and pass through Coombs. Its a neat little place with lots of diverse shops, and goats on a roof.... tongue.gif And to stop at Cathedrol Grove as well.
Funny, I grew up in B.C... hated it for its rain.
But I moved to Calgary for 2 years, and suddenly I realized how much I had been taking for granted... the ocean, and the mountains and the rainforest... would muuuuuch rather live with that in the rain than flat land in -30 weather. tongue.gif
I can live in Vancouver and have my diverse, cultured city and be a Ferry ride away from seclusion...
MusicAddict
Goats on the roof? they werent there when we went through but there was a log place with grass and a animal house on top and a hemp store.
I have smoked weed lots before but dont see how it changes percpective. My bestfriends have done E before and want me to do Acid with them soon. Is that safe? or are mushrooms better?
FireFly
Shrooms are less intense and probably more safe considering it's harder to taint.

What matters most is that you are in a positive enviornement, physicaly and mentally. Surround yourself with good people and atmosphere and you will have the time of your life. You'll also know what I mean about perspective.

By the way, I don't recommend anyone do X. I tried it, had a lot of fun, but the next day I felt like such ###### and decided I never wanted to do it again. I'm not missing much.
Cutelilchica
Word.
Way I compare the two, acid is black and white and straight edged while shrooms are more colorful and bubbly.
But so right about your surroundings... you sooooo have to be in the right state of mind and be in the right atmosphere.
And like I said before, read up on what to expect to calm some nerves...educate yourself on the waves...
ANd I agree with Firefly as well about E, all white drugs in fact... the depressive state you find yourself in... just doesn't seem worth the high you encounter. They just leave you feeling dirty.
OriginalBlend
I never said I needed drugs to think the world is beautiful. I already think it is all the time. But trippin and grass definatly take you to a new level of beauty. It opens your vision physically and mentally and you even learn from it and it sticks with you. I've appreciated life so much more after trippin my first time years ago. and smoking and it hasn't made me a worse person. Drugs are ment to be. It's a great experience for life. Just don't go over board. I probably trip once a year on both mushies and tabs. and it's a great ritual.

I think i like acid alot more than mushrooms. I have reasons but i gotta go.
Pisces
QUOTE(Cutelilchica @ Jul 31 2005, 06:45 PM)
What made you decide to move down to the States, if you don't mind me asking?
*



Just saw this! I'll be back later to answer, oki dokes cool.gif
MusicAddict
QUOTE(OriginalBlend @ Aug 4 2005, 08:07 PM)
I never said I needed drugs to think the world is beautiful. I already think it is all the time. But trippin and grass definatly take you to a new level of beauty. It opens your vision physically and mentally and you even learn from it and it sticks with you. I've appreciated life so much more after trippin my first time years ago. and smoking and it hasn't made me a worse person. Drugs are ment to be. It's a great experience for life. Just don't go over board. I probably trip once a year on both mushies and tabs. and it's a great ritual.

I think i like acid alot more than mushrooms. I have reasons but i gotta go.
*



sorry i got the wrong impresion! thank u everybody for the advice. rookie like me.
Cutelilchica
just to add to this topic cuz i can right now.
did some mushrooms last night.
totaly unplanned...
was very expanding...
and a meteor shower to add to it...
i surpassed everyone who was on the journey with me, i was able to recognize their needs to latch on to something solid... and i floated by...and finaly peeled away...
"he who laughs last thinks slowest"...
justify
elaborate what you mean by
"Their need to latch onto something solid"
I'm intrigued.
Cutelilchica
Lemme add a descriptive recap of the experience... adds to the whole idea of being free... not to mention the thoughts in my head at the beginning of the trip.
For the first time, there was no need to feel anxious, or to anticipate a bad experience... I knew I had the ability to control what I wanted it to be... also had alot to do with the info on Ego that you shared... tongue.gif I was ready to just feel and see myself within with a different perception.

Spent the day at the lake and came home to find my step-brother, L and cousin J waiting for me.
i was ready to get out and drink... they were ready for a fest.
after inbetween things- stuff fell into place and we managed to find someone to hook us up with the shrooms.
compressed tabs and chocolates.
we went up to the catherdal grove peoples villa... in order to find a lady named Hazel who had told L and J about an annual Rainbow Party. We figured it'd be a good atmosphere to project ourselves into while experiencing the high.
So we get to the extreme protestors spot in the woods and there were two guys sitting around the candle light. one offered to take us down to the creek to get hazel.
everyone opted to go with except me... I decided to take advantage of the time alone to sit and relfect in peace. Chilled by myself with some french guy and a sleeping man. I really just closed my eyes and listened to frenchie play the guitar. made me miss my sister and her guitar skills.
I passed that moment and was really just feeling tired, I allowed myself to just close my eyes and sit in a trance appreciating that my relaxed comfortable state could be all I'd get out of the shrooms... (everyone else seemed to start zooming in the car)
then frenchie pulls out a poetry book with a pyschedelic cover and starts sharing these weird ass poems that made me smile. actually...i remember when i had the books in my hands it kept opening to one called "the newspaper" i'll try and find it to copy and past for you at the end of this.
just as the mushrooms were starting to play tricks with my mind, (the protestors had actually used string to add facial hair to faces that naturaly could be spotted in the trees... :S) the loud ones J&L and the other two who were with us, came back and sat down.
As soon as Hazel and the frenchie went off to make some ghanja butter with noodles, we all cracked and went through the doors of perception.
was one krazy visual for me.
after the meth addict came (yeah, she decided that leaving society and sticking herself into such an extreme enviroment would be the best way to kick her habbit) and sat down next to me with her weird ass energy, and the feeling of spiders sticking to me... and everyone, we decided to venture to the car.
I had to lead j who wouldn't let his mind see the car at all. was kinda fun to play with me head that way... now i see it, now i don't... (have to add... conversation wise... meth head knocking Amy down for offering up her chair... Amy said "here, have your chair" meth-head spider lady replied with "we don't need to attach ourselves to solid things out here" aha! I liked meth head in a scary, seeing your own evil side way. and someone saying something about names... someone was trying to get introductions from everyone... and somebody stated they weren't interested in the need to attach labels to faces)
everyone was determined to be normal and get to somewhere (thats the problem with having a car, and not being in a familiar enviro., everyone felt as though they had to be somewhere, or go someplace)... they were getting all attached to the ground again, i was trying so hard to float on. succeeded. everyone would touch down and search for their purse, or cell phone... i just hovered above somewhere... kicked my shoes off and felt earthy.
ended up- seemed like a long journey to get there- at paper mill dam.
gate was open.
We like that. They usually close it at dusk.
Another thing to add to the perfect flow of the whole night.
meteor shower.
one night of the whole year where you can see more shooting and falling stars than any other... mmmmmm.
they took off to get blankets... and i stayed behind again as they drove off and I just let my "self" emerge.
I smiled as i remembered a night at moms when my sister and I had ate mushrooms... and she was naked in the hot tub- just being... and i was being all who i thought i was meant to be... and just... not getting it at all. DIdn't understand how she could just sit naked in the water without feeling... wrong in any sense.
This time, alone in the dark, i broke through. cracked my wall down and it crumbled....
my best shroom trip ever... i had no ghosts... no insecurities... I could finaly just be...beyond my self declared realitites... and was comfortable with all my screaming thoughts... and loved that i just felt the same as the earth.. and the stars were falling as all this was going on...
and then the others came back with their purses and cell phones and their cigarettes and i'd be tempted to jump to the level where i could ground myself with addictions that would make me feel safe and pull me back to an understood reality again... but i didn't... i'd stare up at the sky and see a shooting star, and then a falling star, and suddenly i'd get lost... layer upon layer there were sheets of stars. I also enjoyed my step brothers friends discription of the universe, and at the time could totaly relate to the words he spoke about "matter" and the physics that make us exist....
and for some reason... i kept thinking of a sticker I once saw, "he who laughs last thinks slowest"... i always had that backwards...assumed it meant it was a bad thing to laugh last... aha!
And I found it amusing, that the other four traveled through the waves of their trip together, while I pressured myself not to be pressured to feel something or search for something just because that was what I thought I should be feeling... make sense?
And Stan.
something about that is bothering me. The name Stan. Think it might be derived from under"stan"d... in my own weird way...
Was tripping out on how I created that night... my whole experience was just built upon my own perceptions and memories and thoughts...connections were made because of what I could reach from in my own mind.
Just knowing... understanding. Everything happens for a reason.
Last night... I felt energy... for one second I could feel it near and it made me tear up... in such a good way... cuz that strong connection is just all to raw... and all to real in this make believe world. I love it. Just being.
OriginalBlend
It's times like these we learn to live again.
Cutelilchica
QUOTE(OriginalBlend @ Aug 16 2005, 09:46 AM)
It's times like these we learn to live again.
*



Soooo true... magnifies the reasons behind everything that is occuring within your "self" and lets you appreciate and see so much more than before.
justify
Anyone as paranoid as me to wonder if drugs are illegal for one real purpose.
Because the "dictators" are aware how they can be mind expanding?
amphiboly
QUOTE(justify @ Aug 18 2005, 02:35 AM)
Anyone as paranoid as me to wonder if drugs are illegal for one real purpose.
Because the "dictators" are aware how they can be mind expanding?
*



illegal
unsure.gif
because they open u up to the possibility that everything that u think u know is wrong
FireFly
QUOTE(justify @ Aug 18 2005, 02:35 AM)
Anyone as paranoid as me to wonder if drugs are illegal for one real purpose.
Because the "dictators" are aware how they can be mind expanding?
*


There are a lot of reasons why these drugs are illegal. That is one of them.

Ever wonder why some drugs are legal and others aren't?

Legal drugs: caffeine, sugar, nicotein, pharmacutical drugs. All of these are drugs that are bad for your health and are making GIANT corporations rich as Kings.

Illegal drugs (the two I endorse): Weed, shrooms. All of these are drugs that expand your mind which in turn makes you resist the currnet power/social structure we live in right now. Also, these drugs aren't nearly as bad for your health as the legal ones.
JWBIII
I hate to nit-pick, I really do. FireFly, sugar (but that I am guessing you are referring to table sugar, ie. sucrose) is not a drug. Some sucrose can be found in fruits and vegetables (although the main form of sugar in fruits is fructose). Also, sucrose is found in sugar cane and sugar beet, and is grown naturally in varous locations all over the world.

Anything you can ingest can be bad for your health. It is just a matter of how much. For example, I try to make sure I drink my orance juice to get my Vitamin C (gotta keep that scurvy away!!), however too much Viatmin C can lead to development of kidney stones.
Cutelilchica
QUOTE(justify @ Aug 18 2005, 12:35 AM)
Anyone as paranoid as me to wonder if drugs are illegal for one real purpose.
Because the "dictators" are aware how they can be mind expanding?
*


I've always had that in the back of my head too...
justify
QUOTE(JWBIII @ Aug 19 2005, 02:00 AM)
I hate to nit-pick, I really do.  FireFly, sugar (but that I am guessing you are referring to table sugar, ie. sucrose) is not a drug.  Some sucrose can be found in fruits and vegetables (although the main form of sugar in fruits is fructose).  Also, sucrose is found in sugar cane and sugar beet, and is grown naturally in varous locations all over the world.
*


Well, just because its natural doesn't mean it can't be a drug. Aren't both weed and shrooms oraganicaly grown?
oceanchild
.ds
oceanchild
QUOTE(oceanchild @ Aug 18 2005, 09:01 PM)
i just wanted to say - i've tried both weed and shrooms (among other things) ... and i do think they did 'open my mind' in some ways - most definitely ...

i actually remember subtle halucination the first few times when i smoked marajuana ...
and eventually i became depedent on weed - it got to the point where it took over my life, and i felt like i was "leaving reality" too often and it was having some other nasty effects, so i decided to stop ... and i did - cold turkey ...

that was close to 2 years ago now

(and i actually tried smoking again just a short while ago - and i didn't like it sad.gif it felt as though my mind was becoming dull - it was affecting my awareness in ways i didn't like...although i did get a splurge of creativity and was able to get something out of the experience - namely the fact that i saw how destructive it was to me)

i know shrooms can make you more sensitive, so can lots of other drugs, organic and non-organic, but ultimately - whatever you gain or achieve or experience through the drugs - haven't you done it through an 'outside agent' ? ... and then there's always the chance that you'll like it want to repeat it and eventually become dependent ...

right now i feel like a sober state is the most beautiful thing - being able to use all my senses fully, in a natural state, to absorb the world around me - to understand myself through observation - being able to see things as they are ... i can go for a walk in the park and be in awe at the wonder around me in nature - i don't need to smoke or do shrooms to 'feel high' ...

that's how i feel now
*
OriginalBlend
I'm Pretty sure that's a Huge reason why they are illegal. Acid was legal for a long time then they realized that it was making people speak against what they were doing and protesting and doing all that other crazy Stuff People were doing and comming up with back than. It was look what weed and Phsyicadellics did to the beatles. They went from a clean cut teenie bopper band to the most open minded and influential bands of all time. Their idea's music and even look changed after they smoked and took acid. It opened the mind of everyone even professors. Causing them to fight the system.

There are also other reasons why they are illegal. I mean abuse of anything can cause some damage and with no limits alot of people will abuse untill those side affects screw em up. But still I think the government would care more about loosing control mentally than loosing peoples health physically.
JWBIII
QUOTE(justify @ Aug 18 2005, 04:01 PM)
Well, just because its natural doesn't mean it can't be a drug. Aren't both weed and shrooms oraganicaly grown?
*



Granted, substances grown naturally can still be classified as drugs. I suppose I should have been more clear. However, sucrose is still not a drug. Sucrose does not bind to any sort of receptor in produce an effect within the body. Enzymes break it down into glucose which is absorbed into cells as the primary source of energy.

Sucrose is not a drug.
Cutelilchica
The Beatles... Hendrix... The Who... The Stones... Floyd... all dabbled into the LSD and other "mind expanding" drugs...
Resulted in some pretty intense music...
I hear where Oceanchild is coming from, but you still did experiment... and you are able to see that there are benefits from sampling.
I just have a problem when people who have been taught through life to think that all drugs are bad, because of the movie star endorsed commercials, start preaching to me about the dangers.
Its ironic actually.
Life itself can produce the same euphoric(??Spell right?) feelings...
But sometimes, when life is preventing me from breaking through to what I could see... shrooms or weed can be a sort of gate opener for my mind.
justify
Nothing bothers me more than someone who makes assumptions without learning for themseleves.
FireFly
QUOTE(JWBIII @ Aug 19 2005, 09:47 AM)
Granted, substances grown naturally can still be classified as drugs.  I suppose I should have been more clear.  However, sucrose is still not a drug.  Sucrose does not bind to any sort of receptor in produce an effect within the body.  Enzymes break it down into glucose which is absorbed into cells as the primary source of energy.

Sucrose is not a drug.
*


Anything that creates a chemical reaction in your brain is a drug. Adrenaline is a drug, sex is a drug (scientists say it is much like chocolate).

You don't think that sugar doesn't affect your body? Ever see a kid who has had too much sugar?

By the way, i'm not talking about the sucrose found in fruit, i'm talking about the sugar in soda, candy, etc. I don't know if it is "officially" considered a drug by scientists but it difinitely affects your body/mind the way that other drugs do.
JWBIII
Sigh....

This is so off topic, but I can't leave it alone, it's bothering me.

The small amounts of sucrose found in fruit (again, fructose is the primary form of sugar in fruit, there are only smaller amounts of sucorse in fruit) is the same as the sucrose found in candy and soda. The sucrose in candy and soda is from sugar-cane and sugar-beet. In Canada and the US most of this sugar comes from the Carribean. Canada actually gets a lot from Cuba, and in turn the US will buy the Cuban-grown sugar cane from Canada (some trade embargo, eh?). Anyhow, sucrose is sucrose. If the sucrose in fruit was different from the sucrose in candy, one of them would not be sucrose. Sucrose is a specific compound.

Sucrose, fructose, lactose (the sugar in dairy products) are all precursors to glucose, ie. they are carbohydrates. Your cells produce energy via a process called the Citric Acid Cyce (also called the Kreb Cycle and Tricaboxylic Acid Cycle) to produce energy. Sucrose, fructose, and lactose are converted to glucose by intra-cellular enzymes and undergo the energy producing process of the Citric Acid cycle. This is your body's preferred method of generating energy, if it is deprived of glucose (ie. low-carb diets) it has alternative methods of producing energy but these alternative methods generate unwanted effects (ie. acid ketosis).

The claim was made that sucrose affects your body/mind the way other drugs too. Please elaborate, because I am really confused about that statement. The vast majority of drugs work by binding to a extra- or intra-cellular receptor, thus inducing an intra-cellular cascade of reactions that would not have normally happened without the presence of the drug. This cascade of reaction is usually very complicated and researchers only usually have an idea of this process. As more research is put in to figure out how our cells work via better technology and better methods of research, these drug mechanisms often change because the researchers figure out they were wrong or only partially correct about some or many of their inferences. For example, if X hormone is not being produced for some reason, then researchers will try to develop Y drug to compensate (Y drug may take place of the hormone, of Y drug may do something to the cell that will cause the cell to start producing the horomone again.... depending on the pathology of the disease). But these compensation mechanisms of medicinal drugs produce other side effects. Sugar, and its forms of glucose, lactose, fructose, and sucrose do not work this way. The cells in your body are set-up to use these compounds for energy.

I can only infer that the statement of sugar affecting your body/mind the same as drugs could mean one thing:
Without sugar, your body/mind would behave differently.
-True, inducing starvation conditions on your body/mind would result in some differences. Your body would have to use alternate energy producing processes, however, the consequences could be dangerous. Ketone bodies are produced in these alternative processes, making your body more, and dangerously, acidic. Your brain is extremely at risk when deprived of the glucose from sugars, the highly acidic state resulting from the increased production of ketone bodies.

If you decide to call sugar a drug, then absolutely every other food you take into your body would also be a drug. If that is the case, the word drug has no meaning. If sugar is a drug, why wouldn't Vitamins or proteins be

Think of it this way. Your body has a baseline state of being healthy. Depriving your body of certain substances (carbohydrates, proteins, fats, vitamins.... how much of each? depends on who you ask) strays you away from this baseline of healthy. Adding drugs to your body pushes your body away from this baseline healthy as well, but just in the opposite direction. In other words, to stay at this baseline of "healthy" your body requires a certain amount of some substance and can't have more than certain amount others.

This whole rant leads to a gripe I have. Questioning and challenging everything we supposedly "know" is great, and many people who post on this forum do a wonderful job of it. However, making an assertion based on this questioning and challenging without any evidence or knowledge base to support the assertion is not great, in fact, it is ignorant. I can make some sort of statements on based on the nature of drugs and other substances in the body based on my education in Pharmacology and Biochemistry (although I am sure some will dismiss my knowledge on this subject area as the conditioning of the system and institution and feel that the real knowledge of this area is held by the person working in a vitamin store at the mall being paid commission or some random website). However, for subjects that I know less or nothing about I am sure not to make conclusions based on little to no knowledge. Admitting that you do not know something is not a bad thing.

What I am trying to do is back up my statement (for example, sugar is not a drug) with supporting evidence that at least gives an idea what I am talking about. To be perfectly honest, when I see the statment that sugar is a drug and following statements that it affects you body and mind the same way other drugs do, it is rediculous to me. However, instead of being insulting I attempt to provide some reasoning as to why it is not considered a drug.

Sorry for the rant.
FireFly
You mean to tell me that you can't get high off of sugar?

All the knowledge that comes from books and institutions can't compare to actually experiencing it for yourself.

QUOTE
The small amounts of sucrose found in fruit (again, fructose is the primary form of sugar in fruit, there are only smaller amounts of sucorse in fruit) is the same as the sucrose found in candy and soda. The sucrose in candy and soda is from sugar-cane and sugar-beet. In Canada and the US most of this sugar comes from the Carribean. Canada actually gets a lot from Cuba, and in turn the US will buy the Cuban-grown sugar cane from Canada (some trade embargo, eh?). Anyhow, sucrose is sucrose. If the sucrose in fruit was different from the sucrose in candy, one of them would not be sucrose. Sucrose is a specific compound


And THC comes from a plant, what's your point?

QUOTE
The claim was made that sucrose affects your body/mind the way other drugs too. Please elaborate,


K, get yourself a big bag of rocket candies, crush them all into dust and suck it all in with a straw. Ever wonder why kids get super hyper active as kids, but teens and adults it doesn't affect as much? We've obviously developed a tolerance to the affects of sugar (hyper activity, light headedness, headaches, sleep deprivation. Sounds like a lot of drugs I know), we eat it every day in a myriad different types of foods. We've developed a very high tolerance to sugar.

QUOTE
-True, inducing starvation conditions on your body/mind would result in some differences.


Yeah man. People would fast to go on vision quests and such because after awhile they would hallucinate and have "visions".

QUOTE
If you decide to call sugar a drug, then absolutely every other food you take into your body would also be a drug. If that is the case, the word drug has no meaning. If sugar is a drug, why wouldn't Vitamins or proteins be


Why not? If there were two people in the woods and one were sick, the other uses a plant to heal the sick person. To the sick person that cure was just a plant, but he then learned that it was actually a drug. A drug that healed him.

I just think the word "Drug" has been framed in a way that means you either have to BUY them from a pharmacutical company retail store or they are illegal and/or not good for you.

[quote]o be perfectly honest, when I see the statment that sugar is a drug and following statements that it affects you body and mind the same way other drugs do, it is rediculous to me. However, instead of being insulting I attempt to provide some reasoning as to why it is not considered a drug.

This whole rant leads to a gripe I have. Questioning and challenging everything we supposedly "know" is great, and many people who post on this forum do a wonderful job of it. However, making an assertion based on this questioning and challenging without any evidence or knowledge base to support the assertion is not great, in fact, it is ignorant.[QUOTE]
oceanchild
this sounds like a heated debate over .... err ... what is it over? blink.gif really ?? huh.gif

2 obvious and important facts that come to mind after reading what was said: sugar happens in nature + our body needs sugar to sustain itself

another fact: tipping the balance of sugar intake either way can be detrimental to our health

i guess what's most important is how it's affecting us personally ... i know i have too much sugar during the course of most days (it's all those chocolates lying around the office) ...

i also think too much 'artificial sugar' is used unnecessarily in products that we get from the supermarket - lots of processed stuff too

i think we've done a very poor job overall when it comes to getting good nutritional intake from the majority of the food we make which is sold in large quantities at the grocery store - and i think many people have not-so-great eating habits, and maybe aren't that knowledgeable about nutrition - i could be worng, but that's the general sense i get from looking around. i also think that the onus is ultimatley on the invidual to make sure he/she is taking care of him/herself ....

and that's all i have to say about sugar and stuff
petr2005
QUOTE(oceanchild @ Aug 23 2005, 10:03 PM)
this sounds like a heated debate over  .... err ... what is it over?  blink.gif  really ??  huh.gif

2 obvious and important facts that come to mind after reading what was said: sugar happens in nature + our body needs sugar to sustain itself 

another fact: tipping the balance of sugar intake either way can be detrimental to our health

i guess what's most important is how it's affecting us personally ... i know i have too much sugar during the course of most days (it's all those chocolates lying around the office) ...

i also think too much 'artificial sugar' is used unnecessarily in products that we get from the supermarket - lots of processed stuff too

i think we've done a very poor job overall when it comes to getting good nutritional intake from the majority of the food we make which is sold in large quantities at the grocery store - and i think many people have not-so-great eating habits, and maybe aren't that knowledgeable about nutrition - i could be worng, but that's the general sense i get from looking around. i also think that the onus is ultimatley on the invidual to make sure he/she is taking care of him/herself ....

and that's all i have to say about sugar and stuff
*

im kinda confused...help?
Steves
mediate, eleviate, meditate...

Alright mukas!

Dictionary definition of a drug:

1. A chemical substance, such as a narcotic or hallucinogen, that affects the central nervous system, causing changes in behavior and often addiction.
2. A substance used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of a disease or as a component of a medication.

Definition of sucrose:
A crystalline disaccharide of fructose and glucose, C12H22O11 (i.e. a chemical), found in many plants but extracted as ordinary sugar mainly from sugar cane and sugar beets, widely used as a sweetener or preservative and in the manufacture of plastics and soaps.

Scientists are finding that food can treat neurological conditions, therefore the chemical from the food is entering the central nervous system and repairing the brain. Take a look at these web-sites.

http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/pap...ripts/_901.html

http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/pap...ripts/_432.html
justify
"When I heard the claims that drugs could "expand your mind," I thought it ridiculous. It was the equivalent of saying that you could alter the music on your stereo by manipulating the volume and tone controls. Sure, you can change the quality of the music by doing that, but you can't add or subtract anything. You can't produce what isn't there. Much of this so-called mind-expanding philosophy of the sixties was reflected in the music of the period, where lousy music was disguised by turning up the bass and volume. The main job of mind altering drugs is to distort reality; the reality of what is, or the reality of what is happening in your brain. The last time that I heard drug guru Timothy Leary speak, he didn't have much of a mind left to expand.

Periodically chemicals are touted that will make you more intelligent. They don't work either.

There are all sorts of things that will alter your mental state: a hot bath, a cold shower, a cup of coffee, silence, music, noise, sex...the list goes on and on. None of these things will add or subtract from what is in your head. Most people who live successfully learn to alter their mental state by things other than drugs. Note that I said "live successfully." Some people who are considered successful live pretty miserable lives. Neither money nor success can buy happiness. Happiness is usually a result of what you do and how you feel about it and the pleasant things that happen to you."
http://www.mcn.org/c/irapilgrim/drugs13.html

opinions?
Cutelilchica
"Much of this so-called mind-expanding philosophy of the sixties was reflected in the music of the period, where lousy music was disguised by turning up the bass and volume."
Okay... what?? I think this is the only part of the "article" (I can't help but wonder where and how, and why did you find this?) that really bothers me.
Lousy music in the 60s? Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Cream, Velvet Underground, Janis Joplin, The Doors, Blind Faith, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who and of course the underated Love... all released HUGE albums within the 60's. That someone could label all of that as "lousy"?????? Makes me ill.
SOme of those artists are just, untouchable.

" Most people who live successfully learn to alter their mental state by things other than drugs. Note that I said "live successfully." Some people who are considered successful live pretty miserable lives. Neither money nor success can buy happiness. Happiness is usually a result of what you do and how you feel about it and the pleasant things that happen to you."

I don't like the term "people who live successfully"... well, just the fact that one persons ideals of what creates real happiness can manifest such a term.
Sure, we can dig deep enough into ourselves to provide ourselves with a chance to see things in a different light without the influence of drugs.
I can be lazy though... and want a cheap high now and again to hide away from the "real" world we've deemed "reality" today and yesterday.
Just a chance to box myself off...
And, well... at the end of the day, life itself "is usually what you do and how you feel about it and the pleasant things that happen to you."
I appreciate the views of whomever this soul is... I just wonder if he's ever tried to swallow a gram of shrooms... or twisted himself up a jay while sitting alone in his bedroom with headphones on? If he can't appreciate classics from the 60's...
And that would be my 2cents on this...
Cutelilchica
Forgot to mention in regards to this: "The main job of mind altering drugs is to distort reality; the reality of what is, or the reality of what is happening in your brain. "
Exactly. Distort reality. That is the reality. To flick taught reality away.
Cutelilchica
MANNA sounds like manure...I always wondered how Jesus turned water into wine...

Grab a cup of something and get comfty. If you haven't heard of this one, it is the mother of all conspiracy theories.

This is jumping into an old topic- because I still remember so fondly the trip I took and relayed here...

Last summer I once again went on a ride of magical proportions- but ended up having a little visit with the devil rather than god. It was the answer to greed I suppose, and something I will never forget. A dark visit to the parts of my mind where I need not be, but couldn't stop myself from going. I now could say that I understand that place, where only those have gone could understand...

Anyhow- what brings me to this topic, and this thread... is a discussion my sister and I had last night over the phone. She was mentioning how on her recent trip to my lovely little city that she noticed everyone was frowning...

These are such uncertain times in our society, I too fell a weird energy around me at all times. I've spoken on it in my blog, and in the pages of my diary at home... just how things have this odd "unfinished" edge to them. As though we are the brink of something not necessarily catastrophic, but huge.

She touched on the Mayan Calendar, and something she had seen on Youtube recently...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...=zeitgeist+reli

Then the discussion reached this point, which ties into the actual thread here...

I'm going to pull quotes from a random page that speaks on a belief held by many...and the more I investigate the oddity of it all, the more I too feel it could be the root of something...

Everything that has been quoted from the website I've put into bold italics...

http://www.mannabook.ca/

MANNA is the “food-from-heaven” provided by God to Israelites in the wilderness, according to the Bible the Israelites are said to have eaten Manna daily with Quail while escaping from slavery in Egypt. Whether Manna actually fell form the sky, or whether it came up from the ground depends on interpretation of many ancient documents both inside and outside of the Bible, as well as on an in-depth understanding of the linguistic connections and origins of the word Manna itself.


My book "Manna" also explores the idea that Christ was the leader of a Pagan Cult teaching a revival/renaissance of an ancient Egypt Mysticism at the center of which existed a mushroom ritual, learned of by Moses and Christ, a mushroom religion known also to the Maya of ancient Mesoamerica, and many other cultures around the world. The Manna-Book asks if this knowledge was kept secret by an elite caste of priests within the Kabalistic Jewish Rabbis until such a time as Christ came and taught it to the masses, resulting in accusations of blasphemy and the crucifixion of the first Christians. "


The second paragraph is more a personalized opinion from a book by the author, but you can dig into ALOT of information that is out there...

With these below, all interperations of the quotes (of which I pulled up in full from here: http://www.biblegateway.com with the King James version) are also opinions of James Dure, but once again, Google "mushrooms bread of god" and you will be surprised...


Exodus 16:14-34

"And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.

When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, "What is it?" For they did not know what it was.

Moses said to them, "It is the bread the LORD has given you to eat.

This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Each one is to gather as much as he needs. Take an omer for each person you have in your tent.'

The Israelites did as they were told; some gathered much, some little.

And when they measured it by the omer, he who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little. Each one gathered as much as he needed.

Then Moses said to them, "No one is to keep any of it until morning.

However, some of them paid no attention to Moses; they kept part of it until morning, but it was full of maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them.

Each morning everyone gathered as much as he needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away.

On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—two omers [a] for each person—and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses.

He said to them, "This is what the LORD commanded: 'Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.

So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it.

"Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today.

Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any."

Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none.

Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you [a] refuse to keep my commands and my instructions?

Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out."

So the people rested on the seventh day.

The people of Israel called the bread manna. [a] It was white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey.

Moses said, "This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Take an omer of manna and keep it for the generations to come, so they can see the bread I gave you to eat in the desert when I brought you out of Egypt.' "

So Moses said to Aaron, "Take a jar and put an omer of manna in it. Then place it before the LORD to be kept for the generations to come."

As the LORD commanded Moses, Aaron put the manna in front of the Testimony, that it might be kept.

It was a small round thing in the morning dew, it bred larva, and would melt to mush if not dried. [King James Version].

All "wild" mushroom pickers know that mushrooms are most notorious for being infested with worms. This is because flies worldwide of all varieties lay their eggs, which hatch up into the gills causing the larvae/worms to crawl out as the mushroom matures


Daniel 5:3-5 with Exodus 16:32 and Hebrews 9:4

Daniel 5:3-5: Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.

They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone.

In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.

Exodus 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

indicates that the mushroom was a drug. After sacking the temple in Jerusalem and stealing the Ark-of-the-Covenant, the King of Babylon and his table drank from the golden cup containing the holy “Manna” they had visions within the hour….. Psilocybin mushrooms take 30-40 minutes to induce visions.

Psalm 78:24-25

And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.

Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

calls Manna Food Of Angels, just as Mayan/Inca Priests from Meso-America called it Teonanacatl Food Of The Gods.

Manna is an Egyptian word, not Hebrew or Aramaic, meaning;

The Bread of God. This is what Moses called it in Exodus 16:15.

“Bread Of God” means “Food Of God”, which is the same meaning of Teonanacatl (Mayan), and Ambrosia (Greek), and Soma (Hindu) a word for mushroom tea, all these words mean “Spiritual Food”.

Coca and Tobacco Leaves found in Pharaohs tombs suggest it was ancestors of Mayan/Inca Priests who brought mushrooms to Egypt.


John 2:6-9

And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

indicates that Jesus made water into wine by boiling mushrooms (Mushroom-Tea), the waterpots were made of stone, not clay, (stone pots were used for cooking, clay pots used for storing water). These pots already contained 2-3 firkins of a substance before the pots were filled with water.

A “Firkin” is an Old-English measurement meaning a fourth part. Half to three-quarters of fresh mushrooms with water makes a potent tea. Tea is the safest way to consume field mushrooms, killing dangerous bacteria like E. Coli. In the Atharva Veda, the Hindus called this Tea Soma. Greeks called mushroom jelly Ambrosia.

Those who drank the water made into wine said it was the most potent intoxicant (St. John 2:10). The Bible tells us that Jesus making water into wine was the “beginning of miracles” … in other words no one saw any miracles until drinking the wine made from water. (St. John 2:11).

Certainly for the Israelites Egypt was the origin of Manna, which explains why all the Patriarchs of Israel were educated in Egypt, Moses, Christ, and Joseph [The favorite son of Israel], were all educated in Egypt. Solomon married Pharaoh’s daughter, and Abraham found his God at a place called Shechem (Sekhem), which is another Egyptian word for Manna. Teonanacatl [Maya] = Soma [Hindu] = Ambrosia / Broma-Theon [Greek] = Manna [Egyptian/Hindu] It can be no coincidence that the Mayan, Egyptian, Greek, Hindu, and Israelite words for the mushroom all mean exactly the same thing: “The Bread Of God”.

Manna was round, was found on the ground in the dew, would melt to mush if not dried or collected on time, and would breed larvae. All unique characteristics of mushrooms. When dried it was like “wafers of bread” and it’s color was like “coriander seed”, the consistency and color of dried mushrooms, as described in Exodus Ch. 16.

Other psychedelics used in the Bible include, of course, Cannabis, Mandrake and others. This book focuses on Mushrooms as “The Global Sacrament”, but most specifically to the Israelites.

Be advised that the author does not advocate the non-ritual use of mushrooms or in any way place their importance above that of love, “Seek first the kingdom of love and all other things shall be added to you” [Christ]
FireFly
It wouldn't surprise me in the least. In fact, I've believed that he used hallucenigens (sp?) for awhile now. It makes perfect sense, especially the "turning water into wine" bit. Crazy.
Cutelilchica
QUOTE (FireFly @ Nov 1 2008, 02:53 PM) *
It wouldn't surprise me in the least. In fact, I've believed that he used hallucenigens (sp?) for awhile now. It makes perfect sense, especially the "turning water into wine" bit. Crazy.


Truly does make perfect sense- it's creepy.
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